Dr. Travis Parry (00:00.942)
Welcome to another episode of the Travis Perry show. I am your host, Dr. Travis Perry. Today I am with Tim Croak. Tim is the CEO of Croak Capital, a $400 million independent RIA firm. He's the chairman of the board at Unison Health, the largest mental health firm in one of the largest mental health firms in Ohio. Also on the board of the Mercy Health Foundation and Valentine Historic Theater. And just a great all around, uh, wonderful person to be.

Acquainted with Tim. Welcome to the show

Tim Croak (00:32.752)
Hey, Travis, thanks very much for having me on.

Dr. Travis Parry (00:35.88)
Absolutely. Why don't you let us know a little bit about your story. Have you built your firm and how you've been able to get to the point, this stage of the game in your career.

Tim Croak (00:47.75)
Yeah, thank you for asking. First of all, I've been in this business for 43 years. And so I started right out of college and I've been working in my hometown in Toledo, Ohio. So born, raised, educated, went to the University of Toledo, started at a local firm and really just kind of built my way up from there.

And I have a really interesting background that I think you'll relate to really well because I came from a large family. My dad worked in a factory. My mom worked in a library. We have six kids. We were raised Catholic, as you might imagine. And we had a lot of love and a lot of camaraderie and lot of adventures as a family, but we didn't have any money. And we...

you know, just kind of existed like that. I remember getting hand-me-down clothes from cousins and so forth, and that's just the way that people existed on the east side of Toledo, you know, where I grew up. My parents are both gone now, and just to let you know, I inherited a grand total of $1,367 when my father died, who was the second parent to die. So everything that I have done from a financial planning

perspective, from an investment perspective personally, and building my business, I've done on my own. So I didn't win the lottery and I didn't inherit any money. So all of this really comes from having a very strict philosophy about not just business, but about relationships and about life and really sticking to that as I've gone forward.

Dr. Travis Parry (02:36.92)
You know, this is something that I think a lot of people recognize as sort of a lost art, the lost art of, you know, just not hanging on others and being self-sufficient and, being, someone who can, you know, obviously pull yourselves up by your bootstraps. w you know, there's, there's a lot to be said about just that we could spend.

our entire conversation, which we'll spend a bunch of it. but, I think that this is, a really great example of someone who is walking the walk, not just talking to talk. we're going to talk a lot about legacy and in versus entitlement and what that means. but, you know, I think when we first got, to talking about what you do for your practice, I recognize this, this is someone who preaches this idea of.

helping one's clients, growing their portfolios, helping them with their financial planning needs and not entitling their clients. And obviously I can see that comes from your personal background. Tell us a little bit about how you've built your practice and why you've really centered this around the principles and values that you've chosen.

Tim Croak (03:57.351)
Well, money, first of all, you never really know how to manage it when you have it. You manage money and learn that art by not having it. But what you also learn over time is that money is not the end. It is the means to the end. And so my first conversation with people is always about having what I call a five-star life. And...

I really get that from, at some point you're going to have a funeral and they're going to be giving you eulogies like they are with me. And the best thing that would happen for our eulogies is for people to come up and say, this guy had a five star life. He was clicking on all cylinders and they are never going to bring up at a eulogy how much money you had or what kind of car you drove or what neighborhood that you lived in.

They're going to talk about the things that really matter. Relationships, experiences, community, legacy. You know, those type of things that really, they get down to the core of who you are as a person. What you stand for. What areas of life do you step up in? And the reality to it is, is that all of those things cost money.

You know, but money should be the end to enable you to be able to enhance all of those areas as much as possible. So from a financial planning viewpoint, a lot of people, you know, certainly want to do this on their own. Money should be a money machine. It should be an income producer. So the more money you've got creating an income, the less we need you creating an income, which should free you up.

do the things that you're passionate about, that you get fulfillment from, that move you, you know, kind of heart and soul. And so where we get involved as advisors is when the wealth complexity exceeds traditional models and exceeds the point where you can really do that on your own. And so as you build, you want to take a long-term view to be able to have a comprehensive vision.

Tim Croak (06:13.96)
of those financial concerns that extend beyond whatever your immediate needs are. So when I'm talking to people, it is not just about building a bigger portfolio, it is about building a richer life.

Dr. Travis Parry (06:32.0)
Yeah. And this is a great example of not just focusing on the money, right? But, but what, what are the true goals? I think a lot of holistic, and I say this with air quotes, financial planners, they consider themselves holistic because they involve, multiple aspects of financial tools, multiple, you know, angles of, you know, insurance and tax and legal and, and all that's nice.

Tim Croak (06:32.281)
Yeah, and this is

Dr. Travis Parry (07:00.546)
But true, holistic view is not just money as an aspect of life, but, the, the life is the point. how, how are you living everything in every area of life? to, to its fullest, are you living up to your potential, your purpose? So I love that you talk about that and I have my own personal journey, but where does that stem from for you, Tim? Like why.

Why is that important? What have you seen with clients or maybe your experience in life that has shown that this is a pitfall that maybe other financial planners don't fill this, this need or that society is lacking in some form.

Tim Croak (07:44.083)
Well, there's so many factors that hold people back and that the two primary ones are fear and the fear is exacerbated oftentimes by politics and by media and you know, I think there's a lot of sponsors out there, information, know, generational sources that want you to be afraid.

And that they capitalize on that fear to make you do things. And so if you doubt me, just watch the next gold and silver commercial that you see on TV. And they always start with, hey, the world is going under, so you better have some gold in your portfolio. And that's their whole sales pitch. So fear is one big factor. And the other factor is ego.

And it is just a matter of insecurity that people want to keep up with the Joneses and they want to feel valuable. They want to feel good about themselves. And so they think having more money or more possessions or living in the right neighborhood or being a member of the right clubs is going to make them feel valuable. And I think a big aspect of our profession is to help people get past that fear and pass those ego needs.

to be able to make common sense financial decisions to do one thing and one thing only, and that is create freedom. And freedom from economic choices and pursuing certainly, but also freedom from fear and freedom from ego. Warren Buffett doesn't really care what anybody thinks about him. He's rich enough not to have to worry about it. so being able to give that kind of gift to people I think is a big part of what we do.

Dr. Travis Parry (09:41.154)
Yeah, my, my next book, we're really focusing on this area of financial freedom. It's not just not having to pay bills or being out of debt or whatever, but it's this ability to get past your fears you hit on this. and why, why is that? It's so important. Maybe walk us through what your framework is around financial freedom and what that looks like. maybe.

Tim Croak (09:41.384)
Yeah.

Dr. Travis Parry (10:07.822)
how people get there. Talk to us a little about that framework,

Tim Croak (10:12.06)
Yeah, to kind of boil this down, the treetop view is that once upon a time, people in my position were there to give information. And that's how you found out how to invest and what different companies were about and all that. And so it was really an informational type of profession. But now every piece of information that you can get possible, you can get through AI, you can get it on the internet, you can Google.

And so that's really not what we're about at all. This profession is about giving perspective and judgment. It is strategic. So it is saying, hey, you take all that information, but we want to help you decide what you're going to do with that information to drive that forward and to kind of unclasp your being from money.

means that you can claw into those things that I mentioned that are really more important. You can go out and have adventures and experiences and you can really live a very, very full life with friends and family and your community, your business associates, your churchmates, your proteges.

Going back to that philosophy of a five-star life, can't really enhance that. It can't be a big part of your life until you either are financially free or you are on the path to financial freedom. You know, this is what I need to do to get there. Knowing that, I can relax and enjoy the journey and start concentrating on the view.

If you love Florida and you're on a train from Toledo, which is cold right now and rainy on your way to Florida, and you know that you're going to get there, then you can kind of relax and enjoy the view outside the train window and give a little smile and have some camaraderie with the people that are sharing the journey with you.

Dr. Travis Parry (12:30.85)
Yeah. And what would you say is the most important aspect of that breakdown of that framework? If, if individuals really want financial freedom beyond, you know, just these barriers that we've been talking about, but true living life purposely, what is the most important aspect? thing that they should focus on number one above everything else.

Tim Croak (12:31.164)
Thank

Tim Croak (12:55.464)
Well, you've got to have the money to do it. Okay. And if you are not going to win the lottery and you're not going to hear a lot of money, then you're to have to do it on your own. Okay. And so conquering those financial goals is a matter of planning, but it really is a matter of discipline, which is a psychology issue. It's not a financial issue. Okay. And so the, again, the reality to it is

is knowing that all of the money that I'm making is going to go to one of three places. It is either into consumption, rent, food, gas, utilities, entertainment, or it's buying depreciating assets, cars, clothes, furniture that's going to go down in value, or it's going to go into appreciating assets. Those things that it is going to grow in value and will ultimately produce income for you.

And so where the discipline and the plan comes in is saying, I know that those are the three choices. I would like money to go consistently, systematically, methodically into the appreciate an asset area so I can start building those assets. And people get wrapped up with how much is going in there and what the return is and all of that. And I'm here to tell you that the most important thing is

the psychology of it. is the systematic methodology, is the habit forming nature of putting money consistently somewhere first. I don't care how much it is, it is a matter of building that habit first. Once you have the habit of saving, investing and accumulating, then you can plug in bigger numbers as you go. But very few people have got the discipline to be able to do it.

Again, psychologically, most people spend money with the intent to save the difference, right? Very few people save money first with the intent to spend the difference, but by the time you're done spending in that first area, then there's nothing left to save. And if you save money first, and then you're just going to gear the rest of that to whatever's left on the spending side, then you're making progress.

Tim Croak (15:15.365)
So it really is conquering the psychology of money before you worry about interest rates and investment vehicles.

Dr. Travis Parry (15:23.31)
Tim, I have interviewed thousands of business owners, hundreds of which are financial professionals and planners. And, know, we've talked about so many, um, uh, ways, modes, methods, et cetera. But what you just touched on is literally why I've made a practice and I'm really excited to talk about this. I really want to dig into this a little bit more.

is this psychology of money. I left financial planning as an advisor because I saw this was the missing piece. People with the apt, like the ability, they have the, the, you know, the, um, opportunity yet there are fears. There are things that are keeping them from pulling the trigger to going forward with their plans. We'd create elaborate plans and then they'd fall flat with people that had the money. had the wherewithal. They just couldn't figure it out.

And I scratched my head a long time trying to figure out the psychology of this. So I want to, want to dive a little bit deeper here. in your experience and your years of doing this, you know, we can contrast really two groups, the ones that got past their fears and move forward with the advice and the plans and beginning these appreciating assets and the ones that didn't. Can you maybe

Tim Croak (16:20.786)
We.

Dr. Travis Parry (16:43.746)
Talk about those two groups and give us an idea of what those look like.

Tim Croak (16:48.572)
Yeah, I think one of the values that we give, especially at beginning of that process, is number one, the accountability. You know, I think people are much more likely to do something if they've got someone to be accountable to do it for anything that takes discipline. So it might be exercising or it might be diet or it might be saving money or whatever the case may be.

But the second thing is much more important, and that is that they acquire a vision of what that will look like at the end of the journey, and that vision gets reinforced. And I think what good professionals do, good financial professionals, is they reinforce that vision of what it will be like. And when I tell people,

that look, you are going to have this kind of financial asset base at this age, right, you know, initially that might be pie in the sky, but over time, they see the markers, you know, and they say, oh my God, this is happening just the way that Tim said it was gonna happen. And you really, you've got to start then changing that vision to say, look, you're gonna achieve this, that much is a given.

You're doing what you need to do. And so we want to start changing your mind frame to what's going to happen when you accomplish it. And so when you talk about legacy planning, what do you do once you have the money and once you can redirect that saving and investment portion into other things? What do you want to have happen? And so many people that I talk to don't have that vision and they retire.

And we have got to change the entire.

Tim Croak (18:47.42)
the conversation and the mindset that we're having from the scrimping, saving, sacrificing mindset of accumulation over to the spending side. And so when someone is 65 and they're retired, the conversation changes to, I'm sending you a check this month and then I'm sending you another check next month. In fact, I'm going to be sending you a check.

every month for the rest of your life and by the way that check is going to be increasing in value your part of the deal is you've got to find a way to spend it okay and so if you have that conversation with someone when they're 65 it is a very difficult conversation but if you start that when they're 50 and say listen this is the kind of shape you're going to be in so you want to start thinking now how you want that to go

and give some energy, time and thought into what are you passionate about? What moves you? What kind of things do you want to experience before someone gives you a five-star eulogy? And that might be hiking, might be tennis, it might be golf, it might be a million different adventures, or a million different kinds of relationships.

But you want to start gearing them towards that because those are the things that really make life. And money is just the tool to help them get there.

Dr. Travis Parry (20:21.528)
Yes. So what you mentioned here is really the power of positive psychology. It's already happened. It already exists. I talk about this in my first book, achieving balance. It's start with what it is you value. What's the future going to look like by looking backwards, start at the end and then go backwards. you know, I'm not going to get into the details of that, but it's because I had to eulogize my own father and create his obituary.

that this really hit me hard and I did it for myself at age 25. was like, what if I only made it to 50? My dad was two weeks shy of 50. Like, what if I only made it then? Wow. And it just blew my mind, Tim. It absolutely blew my mind. And what's crazy is I can trace decisions that I have made over the last 20 years, almost 20 years now to that, um, exercise that I did myself.

Tim Croak (20:55.88)
Hmm, yeah.

Tim Croak (21:00.807)
Yeah.

Dr. Travis Parry (21:17.202)
And it sounds like you and I are very much on the same page of like getting to that mental state. So the ones that haven't been able to get past their fears, are they just unable to visualize it? Are they unable to even talk about it? Like how bad is it usually for that group of those people that you meet you like, okay, you're, you're, they're not going to make it because of the psychology of it. What, what typically do you see on that side?

Tim Croak (21:45.141)
Yeah, there's a power to manifesting and it really is an energetic power that you can manifest whatever you want but you've got to be able to say it out loud and to think it and through that visualization and that process it will come to be and you've got to believe that it will come to be.

And so to work with someone like me, you can probably tell that they need to be open to that and they need to be trusting of that process. And some people just aren't, you know, and if they aren't, that's okay, but they should probably work with someone else. I'm just not sure they're really going to be able to make, you know, that kind of progress. And if you are just investing money,

for investment's sake, then I don't know if that is just so, again, you can get over the fear or you can get over the ego concerns that we talked about, but building money for money's sake is empty. And it is just not gonna yield you to have a five-star life. And so many people die with tons of money.

And their kids are in the background licking their chops, waiting for them to go. But the people that do, because they've got so much of their personal value tied up in those investment accounts that they can't spend it, they can't direct it to emotionally fulfilling things, and they're empty.

And it's really a shame and I do my best to help them overcome that, but some people just cannot overcome it.

Dr. Travis Parry (23:41.05)
Yeah. You know, I think there's a spiritual aspect here, right? There's definitely a spiritual concept here that like they're empty because they feel like for whatever reason, the psychological is I write about this in my second book. They're typically focused on that money is going to solve whatever problems they have in their life. And if money is their God, like it doesn't matter. Money is the idol. They put it before God. It is their God and they have lost that.

Tim Croak (23:44.25)
It is totally spiritual.

Dr. Travis Parry (24:08.527)
Um, so I know that you work with a lot of spiritual people. You work with a lot of people that overcome fear. And what's crazy to me is that we typically tend to think of like, we're getting past fear. This is some psychological thing, which it is. We've been mentioning this, but a lot of is connected to our spirit. It's connected to where we put our priorities in life and, and, and, know, who we prioritize. Um, so, you know, those who've been able to get past fears, do you find, I know I'm leading the witness here, but.

Do find that they're more spiritually inclined? Do you find that they're more all around, you know, balanced people, that they're more, you know, devoted to God and to family?

Tim Croak (24:47.878)
I think that you're getting very deep here, so let me just touch on this. Because I think this will answer a lot of what you just mentioned. I think that we are all here as humanity to elevate ourselves as a mankind spiritually. We want to individually and collectively continuously become more God-like.

And that is a very difficult thing to do alone. It's tough to sit on your own and read and meditate and pray and somehow try to get your spirit elevated. It happens in context with other people. It's because of the relationships and the community that everybody is working together where that spiritual growth occurs.

And again, to be able to overcome the fear and overcome money concerns, to be able to collectively work on that, work on that elevation of yourself and others, I think is really the key to having a fun, well-rounded life. But you have got to be confident in the process so you quit worrying about yourself.

and you start worrying more about your community.

Dr. Travis Parry (26:21.295)
Yeah. I mean, no man is an Island, right? It just, it's, impossible. You've got to be able to, to serve others and to learn these concepts of what it means to be God like by practicing on your family here, your teammates, your, people at work, people that you see that you communicate with that church, et cetera, et cetera. I really appreciate that. Cause you know, for part of a society.

Tim Croak (26:43.57)
Yeah.

Dr. Travis Parry (26:48.483)
That quite honestly is, very unhinged right now. And there's a huge divide. We could spend hours talking about this, but there's a huge divide between those who are, who are spiritually minded and, other focused and those who are not. and it's, it, it, it really does come back to money again, but I think that that value of where you put your time and effort is super important. I know we could spend, you know, we are getting deep and I love this is why I love doing the podcast is because I find.

Once I can really uncover what your framework is, what, is your idea for improving life, what you've experienced over the decades, and then really finding the one thing, that one thing of getting past your fears by manifesting the positive psychology of your future. that's, that's really key. And those that can, it sounds like they're very successful at it. If, if, you know, we're not there yet. If you're listening on, man,

I really like to be there. I'd like to be more of that way. What would you suggest is maybe one or two or even three ideas that might put people in a better situation where they can begin to get past these fears? What are a couple of baby steps that you could suggest him?

Tim Croak (28:01.063)
Yeah.

Tim Croak (28:05.36)
Yeah, well again, this has nothing to do with finance, you know, and so you do not want to learn about ETFs and think that you're on a spiritual journey, right? But I think that a lot of it is, it is first of all getting outside your skin and thinking about community as a whole instead of me individually. And we want to make sure and talk about legacy planning as part of that because it

You can't do legacy planning and be worried about yourself all at the same time. But where the baby steps come in is changing your attitude, changing your mind with podcasts, with reading, with the ways to grow, conversations with people, know, being part of book clubs and reading.

the right kind of books that sow growth and sow community that don't sow polarization and hatred and everybody else is terrible and I'm great type of thing. But I think to continuously train your mind gets you out of the doldrums and it gets you thinking positively and it gives you the sense of

positive self expectancy. Great things are going to happen to me, for me, because of me, you know, as long as I've got the attitude and the state of mind that I can manifest those things coming to me. And we all get in the doldrums, you know, what I call the dark cave. And that is a very low energy cycle that we don't operate very productively in.

but to be able personally to recognize when you're in the cave and what the shadow emotions are that tell you you're in the cave. And most importantly, how do I get out of this? How do I get back up to the high vibrational levels where I'm thinking positively and I'm interacting and I've got that positive self expectancy, I think is really key.

Dr. Travis Parry (30:23.915)
Yeah. Love that. And, and yeah, this is definitely, you know, as you mentioned, not financial, but it is, it's every it's absolutely related. So to hear a financial guy be, you know, focused on the psychological just reinforces a lot of things I've been teaching and learning. And it's so great to hear. And what would be the second step once you're, you know, something, Oh, this is woo woo. Now it's, it's psychology. Like this is real.

Tim Croak (30:31.89)
Yeah, you bet.

Dr. Travis Parry (30:52.075)
We're all made up of energy and vibrations. So let's say we're able to get to that point where you're vibrating at a higher frequency and you're attracting better and greater things in your life, opportunities, people, money, et cetera. what's, what do you find the next step to be Tim?

Tim Croak (31:10.684)
Yeah, I think you want to, we're all subject of our environment and you want to make sure that you are surrounding yourself with people that share that positive philosophy, but also that they give that positive energy. And so, you you can't be in the doldrums when everybody else around you is really sparking. And so to make sure that you're surrounding yourself with people like that, I think it is really a key deal. We're all subject.

to that and I've always been a little bit of an overachiever and man, when I grew up, there was bullies on the street corners and stuff, you know? And so for me to be able to get out of that environment and get into areas where I was challenged spiritually, intellectually, that I felt that I was with a peer group.

then my nature of being an overachiever means now I'm going to overachieve that group so now I'm really accomplishing something and then you start looking for other groups that do that same kind of thing so you're continuously growing.

Dr. Travis Parry (32:22.274)
Yeah. I mean, they, they say all the time, surround yourself with really good people. what have you found? well, just, this will be your last follow up before we kind of close the segment. I, what, what have you found to be the best way to surround yourself with high vibrating high energy, individuals like this? could, I know there's probably not one thing. There's probably a lot of things one could do, but what have you found?

Tim Croak (32:22.472)
Yeah, I mean...

Tim Croak (32:42.6)
nothing.

Dr. Travis Parry (32:51.256)
to be successful.

Tim Croak (32:52.53)
Yeah, hear me out on this. When you're accumulating money, if I can go back and just tag back in on the finance end of it for a second. When you're accumulating money, it should be a bill type of setup. you know, Tim says my plan is to save $1,000 a month. So be it. So we're going to save and invest that $1,000. But what that means is everything that you're bringing in,

over and above that thousand dollars should be spent somehow. that, you know, food, know, utilities, all that, travel, you know, so you're having some fun, some adventures as you go. But you also want to be very open to giving some of that away. Because giving money away is a very, very positive energy. And what happens is when you start giving money away,

And by the way, as you get into retirement, and I have that conversation where I tell people, you're not saving anymore. Everything I send you, you got to spend. I haven't had a client yet that could spend actively the money that we were sending them. And so they start looking for other sources of where they can put money that is meaningful to them. And a lot of times that goes to charities. goes to the schools they care about, the hospitals they care about, the social service agencies.

You know, I'm chairman of a big mental health organization and we exist on those kind of donations. And what I have found in both phases of pre-retirement, you know, when you're giving a little bit of money away and post-retirement where potentially you're giving away a lot of money is you are surrounding yourself with both the recipients who are getting that money and the other people who are giving it or they're giving their time.

know, talents or other, you know, things, but they are all givers. And there is no better way to surround yourself with very high quality people than to go find the givers, whether it's in business or nonprofits or whatever the case may be. Those are the people that fill my bucket.

Dr. Travis Parry (35:06.67)
love this. This has been gold. And I mean that does not just because you've reinforced so many of the things I've been teaching, but I really appreciate the reminders. think we all appreciate this. Um, the fact that you've been so successful, you've built such a clientele of people who really care about financial freedom and, and, and living their purpose, right.

Tim Croak (35:06.94)
Love this.

Dr. Travis Parry (35:32.61)
They know, and you know that it comes down to their psychology built on that framework you've been talking to us about, and really to, to vibrate a higher frequency, be able to surround ourselves with givers. Tim, I love this. any, anything else that you want to add? before we close out this segment, I want to give you, know, a chance to talk about anything that maybe you would add to this conversation.

Tim Croak (35:59.229)
Yeah, let me talk for a minute about legacy. And, you know, as you, as you have more money and probably more money than you can spend, one of the things that you really want to concentrate on is what's going to happen to that wealth as you pass on, or even if you're living long enough that, that you really can give it away very actively. And, you know, people think that legacy is just about, you know, my kids or grandkids, but it really is about

a much wider circle that might be younger workmates like you'd consider them proteges or different community organizations or whatever the case may be. There's a financial tool out there called a family bank and we use that family bank concept very actively because it brings a family together to talk about the family wealth as a whole and say look we're

First of all, building this together. We've all got responsibility for it, both from a financial management and income viewpoint, but also from a giving viewpoint. And the use of that family bank is what helps people ensure that legacy, not just in terms of money, but in terms of values. You you're able to pass down, the reason I worked and saved and invested and tried to accumulate is not...

you know, because I wanted a bigger house or a better car, it is because I wanted to attack, especially the third chapter of my life, you know, the third quarter here with impact. And the way for me to really do that is for us collectively as a family to talk about that, what we feel should happen, where we can direct resources to, you know, for that maximum impact.

And so I think that, again, you know my theme of the five star life. I think it's about the people that you touch, the people that you reach down and help up. And sometimes that's your kids. Sometimes it's people that live out of a homeless shelter. But I am a big believer in taking care of our corner of the world, wherever your corner is. And if we all do that, then we've got a better world. And it goes back to that.

Tim Croak (38:21.714)
you know, that the spiritual enhancement, the elevation of mankind thing that I keep talking about. And so if we can all accumulate to have that freedom, to have the relationships and adventures, but also to be able to live that kind of a legacy to pass down, then I think that we're going to have that kind of eulogy at the end of the line.

Dr. Travis Parry (38:43.694)
Really, really appreciate this. We've been talking a lot about the family bank and the last few episodes on the Travis Perry show have been focused on family banking and you've really taken us from one end to the other. started off talking about legacy and kind of went to the psychology. Now we're, we're back. you know, as you were talking, what I was thinking is yes.

Family legacy and family banking family banking is the tool but it's really about this family legacy that helps the next Generation with this positive psychology. It connects these generations together very very Fabulously, so thank you for this and you know, you guys know you've been following this show. Listen to the last few episodes we go in

to deeper discussion in various aspects of family banking. But I think this is a huge piece, Tim, that you touched on today. Very grateful for this conversation. Thank you for, for coming in and sharing your words of wisdom. If individuals want to reach out to you, they resonate with this level of thinking. How, can they find you? How can they reach out to you to, chat more?

Tim Croak (39:54.908)
Yeah, if they just go to our website, my firm is called Croak Capital. And so if they just go to croakcapital.com, then they'll find us.

Dr. Travis Parry (40:04.398)
And guys, we'll have links to the show or in the show notes, as, as this, gets posted, but thank you again, Tim for, for being here and everyone else, man, this has been gold, capture what you need on this episode. Like share, subscribe, do all the things. And until next time, remember live life on purpose together.




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